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 Post subject: EFI versus Carb
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:50 am 
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Road Captian
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Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:51 am
Posts: 1961
I think EFI sux and will screw you before a carb will. Unfortunately EFI is the future.

Carb equals block of aluminum with holes and ports drilled in it. EFI equals multiple sensors relays, pressure and fuel pumps to name afew of the parts that can and will leave you stranded. A carb will not leave you stranded.


To expect to be perfect is unreasonable, to strive for perfection is reasonable.
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 Post subject: Re: EFI versus Carb
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:29 am 
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When it comes to new technology on a Harley, I think we go through a painful teething period.

For example, the first Harley I owned with an electric starter was a 1974 FXE. The battery for that bike was as small as that for a CB450 Honda. If you didn't get the bike started on the first spin you wound up kicking it anyway.

Now Harleys don't even have kickstarters, or need them.

Same with EFI. The first "brain box" I ever saw was on a Kawasaki Triple. It was a flat black box under the rear fender. My friend had one of these bikes, and he said that heat killed them prematurely, and many of these boxes needed to be replaced.

The Sportster I had in the mid-1980s had these "magic cubes" under the seat. One of these little two-dollar parts failed, and the bike went to the dealership on a trailor.

Now my Dyna is EFI and dyno tuned. It doesn't burp, stumble or load up at stoplights. I think the Harley buggaboo of technology over EFI has passed, and the system is finally what it should be.


"Imagine a king who fights his own battles. Wouldn't that be a sight?" Brad Pitt as Achilles in the movie 'Troy'


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 Post subject: Re: EFI versus Carb
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:23 pm 
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Road Captian
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Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:51 am
Posts: 1961
More parts the more that can go wrong. EFI has tons of reasons to like it. Self adjusts in higher altitude/elevation, great on cold starts, meters fuel in a saving manner.

However let one, just one sensor,relay,fuel pump or pressure pump shat the bed.... its over. I'm sure one could limp along on one bad injector in fact I think I made it home with a faulty injector. These are things that went thru my head as I was tooling thru the Mojave desert and pretty much from Barstow to OKC. A carb other then the elevation concerns is bullet proof. EFI is awsome when its working. When its not you're forked. Period. And for the majority of the riders who don't go far its no big deal a minor concern


To expect to be perfect is unreasonable, to strive for perfection is reasonable.
2015 Ultra Classic Low.


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 Post subject: Re: EFI versus Carb
PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 6:16 am 
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The two things that stop engines are fuel and spark.

If you need/want a carb, then the best system to use in complement is a breaker/point ignition system.

Yes, bikes use sensors. In a parallel scenario, if a sensor or relay craps on an "electric" bike that utilizes a carb you're a pedestrian, as well.

I think the real strength of a carb is on very large V-twin engines (like one over 120 inches) or one owned by a guy who does his own work. Bigger engines might have fuel needs that surpass EFI downloads, and very few hobbyists have dynos in their garages.

A guy who lives on the flatlands of Illinois can probably re-tune his carb by himself when venturing to Denver.

However, for a guy like me (where time and mechanical knowledge stopped at the shovelhead era) a seamless EFI system is better served. My broken bikes go back to the shop on a truck, anyway. Might as well have clean performance.


"Imagine a king who fights his own battles. Wouldn't that be a sight?" Brad Pitt as Achilles in the movie 'Troy'


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 Post subject: Re: EFI versus Carb
PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:38 pm 
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Senior Road Captain
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Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 10:11 am
Posts: 3623
Location: Orange County, CA
there's a lot of things that are the way of the future, doesn't always make them the best, the fastest thing i've ever been in was carbed and so is my '94, simple and easy is always my vote when it comes to machinery.


You can have it cheap.
You can have it fast.
You can have high quality.
PICK ANY 2....


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 Post subject: Re: EFI versus Carb
PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:58 pm 
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Road Captian
Road Captian

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:51 am
Posts: 1961
Hey now Tourist!

With all due respect,mea culpa mea culpa....
true that what you say. My 1983 FL was originally electronic ignition w/ carb. I switch to P/C. And was fixing to switch back to electronic ignition but having the capability to switch back to P/C on a whim. That could be done on the side of the road in a pinch. No so with EFI. And there are so many working parts to an EFI system its insane. Correct me if I am wrong here but couldn't one simply carry a few different jets on his person to get a workable carb adjustment, not dialed in but workable? On S&S is was a screw under the bowl to access one jet?

The Tourist wrote:
The two things that stop engines are fuel and spark.

If you need/want a carb, then the best system to use in complement is a breaker/point ignition system.

Yes, bikes use sensors. In a parallel scenario, if a sensor or relay craps on an "electric" bike that utilizes a carb you're a pedestrian, as well.

I think the real strength of a carb is on very large V-twin engines (like one over 120 inches) or one owned by a guy who does his own work. Bigger engines might have fuel needs that surpass EFI downloads, and very few hobbyists have dynos in their garages.

A guy who lives on the flatlands of Illinois can probably re-tune his carb by himself when venturing to Denver.

However, for a guy like me (where time and mechanical knowledge stopped at the shovelhead era) a seamless EFI system is better served. My broken bikes go back to the shop on a truck, anyway. Might as well have clean performance.


To expect to be perfect is unreasonable, to strive for perfection is reasonable.
2015 Ultra Classic Low.


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 Post subject: Re: EFI versus Carb
PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:05 pm 
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Yes, you can re-jet.

But I've never taken apart a Mikuni. Aren't those adjustable with just a knob, or am I thinking of a different model?


"Imagine a king who fights his own battles. Wouldn't that be a sight?" Brad Pitt as Achilles in the movie 'Troy'


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 Post subject: Re: EFI versus Carb
PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 8:20 pm 
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Road Captian
Road Captian

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:51 am
Posts: 1961
I'm not famillar either. Look here what does it show:

https://www.motoopartslib.com/wp-content ... iagram.png


To expect to be perfect is unreasonable, to strive for perfection is reasonable.
2015 Ultra Classic Low.


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 Post subject: Re: EFI versus Carb
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:53 am 
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Your explosion diagram shows that part numbers 17 and 20 might regulate incoming air.

A carburetor is actually a woman's perfume atomizer assembly sitting on a toilet bowl. As the bowl fills, the incoming air draws fluid and then sprays it into the intake. Change the flow of the air and it either increases or lessens the draw.

One would 'assume' that the amount of fuel must also be modulated.

What we need now is a guy who knows what he's talking about, and I sure ain't that guy.


"Imagine a king who fights his own battles. Wouldn't that be a sight?" Brad Pitt as Achilles in the movie 'Troy'


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 Post subject: Re: EFI versus Carb
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:09 pm 
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Rider
Rider

Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:29 pm
Posts: 12
i don't know if the harley davidson efi system is much different than to one on my toyota pickup.
the toyota's electronics are set up with a sub routine, that will allow the truck to run even with a system failure.
maybe it won't run as economically or as clean, but it will run.
is the hd system different? if it quits, you're walking??!!!


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